Financially speaking, there is a great inequality in the United States. Over the last 30 years, while the rich have been getting richer, the poor have been getting steadily poorer. One reason for the growing disparity between the rich and the poor is the fact that most new jobs that are created pay low wages and often do not offer retirement plans or health coverage. Here is a graphic look at the widening gap between the nation’s rich and poor.
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Who lost the most money in the last quarter of 2008? If the top 1% of losers lost 75% of the wealth then it seems fair that in an up turn the top 1% make 75% of the wealth. And the nominal v. 2009 dollar graph is a little misleading, it seems more a measure of inflation. From what I can tell, it shows the minimum wage not keeping up with inflation which is sort of easy to understand given our ridiculous levels of inflation and the bullet-train-fast devaluation of the dollar. I am a very strong supporter of social programs and increased spending to raise the standard of living for the poorest among us but I feel like I’m having the wool pulled over my eyes, and it’s a shame because the fact that more rules need to be put in to place to protect the poorest among us is almost a self evident truth, even on the most cursory study of sociology.
This is potentially very misleading. It ignores two facts. First, the US brings in a million new immigrants each year, most of whom are relatively unskilled and hence only capable of lower-pay work. Second, many people who are at the lower end of the pay scale work their way up, from the lower class to the middle class and sometimes to the upper class. So, it’s not the same people around whom the apparent disparity occurs. Rather, the US is a fluid society where people can and do move up; however, because we are also an open society, we are bringing more lower-skilled people currently at a higher pace than ever before.
Marco is full of it! The classic lie about upward mobility when throughout the history of the United States has NEVER been true. (You think Native Americans believe that Horatio Alger B.S.?) There is not a single fact or actual statistic to show that the US is “a fluid society” except perhaps that we are now swirling around the drain…
Look at Marco, the fascist.
You have to be a slave to move up.
Then again, you are one and probably quite happy about it.
Sad.
Fuck you marco. Quit trying to spin the fact that 1% of the population takes home 75% of the weath as a consequence of “imigration”. Its a bullshit response and you know it. Its so laughable that you insult yourself by saying it.
The fact has been obvious for a while the top 1% still arent happy. They wont be happy until they have 100% of the wealth, and the rest of us are slaves to the debt we “owe” them because they “own” everything.
But dont worry, the game board will be reset soon. History has proven that societies as out of balance as ours, dont last long.
The USA does bring in a lot of immigrants, I guess, if you really think so (I don’t). The immigration system we use allows for a quota, ie: only 50,000 people from one country and so on are allowed in. The number of people in the USA and the world is increasing, which means that the percentages should be getting less and less affected as time goes on. This is because 50,000 of 300 million is less than .5% points.
Anyways, so that’s the first thing I disagree with. Secondly, most immigrants are very skilled. They have to be now days. Immigrants from Asian countries (India, China, Japan) almost without exception have advanced degrees in Science, Technology, and Medicine. I know everyone likes to “blame the immigrants” but really, this is one case in which doing so would be a travesty.
On the fact that people “work their way up,” I disagree. If you look at statistics you’ll find that people in the upper middle and upper class had parents from those classes. If those classes are shrinking, then it also suggests that fewer people are “working their way up.”
The fact that the USA is a “fluid society” where people can move up, I would argue is little more than a dream. The reality of the situation is that we are becoming less and less able to do so. Just look at the past year for example, with small businesses being unable to get loans and going bankrupt. Only the super-wealthy and mega rich have been able to stay afloat.
You’re a liar about “bringing in lower-skilled people at a higher pace than ever before.” In reality, it is “bringing in fewer, higher skilled laborers than ever before.” And I’m going to see your retort: “But those highly skilled laborers take our jobs!” I guess you have to blame immigrants somehow, am I right?
I won’t claim to have understood that, but someone once rightly said to me..that 2-3% of intellectual USA run the country. The incomes just tell the same thing.
And may I ask Marco where you fall along the income scale? I think you dispute the above findings because you’re closer to the upper end then the lower. I have 3 college degrees and earned my highest wage of my life 5 years ago, $32k. I’m 46. I have no pension and no medical insurance. No one in my entire extended family has medical insurance and only one of my 3 siblings has any retirement. My mother earns around $15k a year and this is the most she’s ever earned. One of my sister was doing quite well with a small business. However due to a prior condition, she was ineligible for health insurance. Now after breaking her neck and being charged $80k for treatment, she too is nearly bankrupt.
I find the richer live a life of self delusion regarding the poor.
Marco, thats pretty ignorant. Social mobility is highly overstated in the US. People born poor don’t have the same opportunites as people born rich, it’s not a level playing field. You don’t have the same educational resources, the same facilities or access to capital. The reason rags to riches stories make it to the media is because they are rare.
What this information does is show how the great american middle class is being split into haves and have nots. It’s what’d you’d expect from a country dominated almost entirely by the intrests of corporations. A country by the rich, for the rich.
Why did you reverse time on the x-axis? Weird to look at.
Russel: you have 3 college degrees, and at 46 you have a low paying job and no pension or medical insurance? That’s hardly the fault of the “rich” and more the fault of your poor choices, whether it’s getting a degree in a field that has no jobs available, failing to save and/or invest, and finding a job that gets insurance and purchase it yourself. Quit blaming others for your shortcomings.
Russell – you either are working at Burger King because you can’t find work (which is believable considering it sounds like you have serious social communication skills and probably don’t get along with coworkers very well) or your “3 college degrees” are from fantastical online/poor academic institutions and are in communications, culinary skills, and cosmetology.
Everyone on here seems to be jumping on Marco – and while he may not be 100% correct he has so decent points. There are definitely still many many immigrants in our society that bring these numbers down. There are currently around 40 million foreign born legal immigrants in the US. Add to that number illegal immigrants (which has been estimated at 30 million) and you could possibly have 70 million foreign born immigrants. Granted, many of them may be skilled/trained, but definitely not the majority. Also, an issue for many immigrants is that they are trained through their own accredited schooles in their home country, but that training/accredidation is not recognized here in the US – so a doctor from India may end up working at McDonalds because no body will confirm his skill set. Add to this that many of these immigrants dont speak English (or dont speak it very well) and they become very undesirable in upper level job sets.
Now I am not saying there is no issue here. The top earners on Wall Street for example make ENTIRELY too much money. However I am just supporting Marco in saying that the numbers could be skewed and misleading a little bit due to our extremely large immigrant population.
the “rich” make jobs for the “poor” anyway. you trade the free market for socialism, we trend towards an economic environment like Cuba or the USSR, or less extremely, france. young people can’t get jobs in france, and live off of government cheese.
rich people in this country, for the most part, risked their money and time to make money. i know that it’s fun to steal their money and give it to the “poor”, but what does that do besides create incentives to not work, for both the poor and the rich. I’ve seen enough people scamming Medicaid and welfare to know that doing that is a bad idea. the poor in this country have some luxuries that ancient kings didn’t have. cars, A/C, computers. And besides, what to the rich do with their money? They invest it, or spend it. making jobs for people. they don’t fill a vault with cash like scrooge mcduck. case in point, bill gates or warren buffet. their “riches” are the value of their companies, not the cash in thier pockets.
lets face it though, the rich are out to do one thing, make money, because they think that it will make them happy maybe, and the poor are out to steal the rich peoples money, because they think it will make them happy. Where does that leave us? i don’t know, but i know that this country was founded upon the idea that people have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. happiness isn’t guaranteed. We have already seen what happens when the rich people loose money. Their company goes out of business and the poor are out of a job. making them poorer. So if you start taxing the rich, this same thing will happen more. whether that is moral or not, is not the problem of the government or “the system”. these things should not be legislated. the system should only serve to ensure that free markets work. such as anti trust laws and that non-insider trading type laws. in these cases, we will all reap benefit, and although the rich may benefit more, we would be throwing away something good to get even with them.
why do we demonize corporations for trying to make their shareholders money? if you were in the same position, you would try to do the same thing. they don’t have an obligation to the country, but rather to the shareholders. simple in my opinion
On the gap of rich and poor. The dollar amount looks pretty scary but, if you get the nominal value of the dollar from the 80s the gap is roughly double of what it was in the 80s.(The dollar had 55% more value) In which case it makes it a little less dramatic yet, still something to consider.
Oldest trick in the book: hide real stats in quintiles. This isn’t 20% of the population, this is the lowest 20% of wages earner. One would expect the lowest fifth to maintain a similar level, as the minimum wage will trail inflation. This says nothing of labor mobility, or the fact that the majority of people in this country will move into the fourth quintile, and something like 1/2 of those in the top quintile will drop, as well.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Made worse by charted statistics.
Chris – I know you are not into statistics, but sometimes statistics means numbers. Since we are talking numbers, do you have any to back up what you are suggesting? “Something like 1/2″ equals what? 50%? 40%? Post a link.
It is a well known fact that our income disparity has been growing quite rapidly in the United States, especially as compared to other economically developed countries. No one thinks ID is bad, it is just bad at extreme levels and we are slowly getting to that point and nearly diminishing the middle class in entirety. However, as the growth to this point has occurred, most deemed it actually positive, due to it seeming to stem from a growth in capitalism and potential earnings in our country. Combine this with the common pipe dream, or “meritocracy myth” as it is rightly called, that grows very common here in the U.S., and many find ID to be forgivable without having the foresight to see the dangers of its continued growth.
My biggest complaint: It is still somehow easier to blame the poor in this country for “making themselves poor”, then it is to blame the rich in the country for profiting at the expense of those below them. It is sort of like running up the score at a high school football game.
One of the basics of economics is that money (capital) flows to the most valuable people/resources. LouLou and Jon, great points. Clearly Russel you chose something that may be valuable but you should have anticipated that there would not be much money involved. Blaming the rich for the poor’s problems is wrong and each of you criticizing Macro are idiots for a. not being open minded b. drinking the kool-aid of the liberal media who portrays all rich people as evil.
Maybe your should Learn_your_non-neocon_econ?
A recent study in the UK found hospital cleaners to deliver many times more value to society than bankers. How about Lawyers? Versus trash collectors? Try going one week without trash collectors.
Money flows to the people who go after it and are good at going after it. I.e. the smart and greedy. We reward greed. It has only a tenuous connection to actual value.